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[Ma Su]

In truth, would like them to work on Lu Meng most of all since they have three good advisers to work with already.

Lu Fan: Married a wealthy woman over her mother's objections, treated as a family member by Sun Ce. Demoted himself, during a chess game with Ce, so he could sort out the administration himself. Extravagant but kept men in good order and Quan would not listen to criticism of him

Got the personality, a good but extravagant man, got plenty of battles, one or two big moments: the escape thing and one navy battle. A solid choice but doesn't strike me as an awesome add

3/5

Lu Su: Nice guy with lots of friends (Zhuge Liang and Pang Tong), one of the best diplomatic figures of the time, an able political man. A dw? No, has the relationships but lacks battles or the skills

1.5/5

Zhuge Jin: Worried at his son's arrogance, said he would bring down the family. I think his relationship with Liang would be intresting, they remained close friends, Liang adopted one of Jin's kids and they wrote several letters to each other. However when Zhuge Jin was doing envoy duty, he and Liang would keep a careful distance and not visit each other to avoid accusations. Apparently had different mothers

A persuasive man who became a close friend to Sun Quan, was able to settle rows between a young Quan and his officers. Noted for good nature, simplicity and elegance and his courtesy, when his wife died he took one concubine who he loved but never married again. Durying Yi Ling, held the reserve force and was accused of being in contact with Liu Bei which plans to defect, Quan laughed it off.

A mediocre commander who would add a few Wu-Wei battles, made Cic as the ageing Quan did not trust the younger generation (with good reason) and his old friends were mostly dead.

Got the battles, got the relationships, the conflicting interests, got personality. Lacks the big moments, still solid but don't think he would add greatly to the roster

2.5/5

[Nick]

Zhang Zhao:

Current Battles: Assault on Wu territory
New Battles:
Persona: Extremely smart, but was reluctant to take any position at first.  Was resentful when his advice was not taken.

New Events:  Was imprisoned and was going to be killed by Tao Qian before joining Sun Ce for not working under Qian.
Relationships:  Ce treated him as a brother, and Zhao was the one to give Quan the support he needed when his brother died.  Tried to get Quan to stop fighting tigers.  He seemed to disagree with Zhou Yu and Lu Su.
Overall:  He is not listed as having acted in many battles, but rather, he was more of a civil adviser.  However, he serves under Wu for almost the entire course of DW, and has an interesting persona.

Yu Fan

Current Battles: Assault on Wu, Fan Castle,
New Battles: Capture of Guan Yu
Persona:

New Events: Surrenders to Sun Ce after he conquers Wang Lang, convinced Mi Fang and Fu Shi Ren to betray Guan Yu.
Relationships:  He recommended Hua Tao to help heal Zhou Tai when he was near death.
Overall:  I'm hoping that Ma Su can fill in the gaps here, cause I honestly just don't have the time right now to look beyond the novel. lol

[Ma Su]

Edited links

Zhang Zhao:

Battles: Faces Chen Deng and defeated bandit Zhou Feng.

Other stuff: Under Ce, got several letters of praise from north and was embarrassed, feared hiding it in case it seemed like he was hiding being a spy, Ce laughed it off and said it was Zhao's due to be praised. Rallied the depressed Quan after Ce's death, opposed Gan Ning's plans to attack Huang Zu, leader of the "surrender to Wei" party, Quan mocked him for it later. Zhang Zhao rebuked Wei envoy when Wu "surrendered" later

Quan and Zhao fell out every now and again then weep together as they apologize but one moment was brilliant: Zhao went home in a strop, Quan went to apologize but Zhao refused to come out so Quan burnt the door down, Zhao still refused. Eventually Zhao's family dragged him out and they wept in each other's arms. Summed up their relationship really

Zhang Zhao would say what he felt, even in public, this and his blunt words didn't always please Quan. Strict and moral, much admired/feared so people suggested him as PM even. An intelligent scholar and adviser, a calligrapher of note.

An awesome personality, a man whose relationship with Quan would greatly help bring Quan out of blandness. A man who surrendered and yet was hardly a coward, as a special NPC he would be awesome.

5/5

As a PC, very few battles and that is key, there are some awesome civil officers (He Yan is another that comes to mind) but for me, it has to be an exceptional reason (being a woman, Liu Shan) to include a rare or non battle character. Exceptional guy, not a DW

1.5/5

Yu Fan:
Persona: Able, a leading teacher and scholar of his time, but also arrogant, a quick wit and a charming diplomat with a successful record at gaining surrenders. Starts getting drunk, aggressive and contradictory at some point, seems not to think much of mystical stuff

Relationships: Warned Ce about hunting so recklessly, a personal adviser to the warlord. Correspondent with Kong Rong and Zhao Hong, admired by Lu Meng. Despised Mi Fang and Yu Jin, didn't get on with Sun Quan at all, partly due to Yu Fan contradicting Quan often and partly due to Yu Fan being an idiot sometimes

Overall: Family had been famed scholars and officers of the Han for generations, a scholar and debater. He and Wang Lang discussed famed officers of past in the south, despite being in mourning serves Lang against Ce but his advice, not to give battle was ignored. Wang Lang was defeated and fled, Fan followed but Lang told him to return home and look after his (Fan's) family. Served Sun Ce and persuaded Hua Xin to surrender, refused to be envoy to Wei for fear of conflict of interest

Kept officials from going to mourning on Ce's death but to keep order, persuaded Sun Gao not to try to gain power. Brought back for Jing invasion by Lu Meng, persuaded Fu Shiren to surrender and played his part in Mi Fang surrendering. During a hunt, Yu Jin rides a little too far forward, nearly level with Sun Quan, for Fan's liking so he tries to beat him with a whip, insulting Jin. Then ruins his 219 work by failing to acknowledge a celebratory toast for Quan becoming King of Wu, Quan is understandably angry and only just prevented from killing him (then installs a "don't kill anyone while I'm drunk" rule). Oh, then he jeers Quan and Zhang Zhao for discussing spirits and immortals so is promptly exiled, does teaching and scholarly work, warns against allying with Gongsun Yuan but dies just as Quan recalls him. His family would flourish under Wu and Jin which is always nice to hear

Ma Su thoughts: Comes across to me as a man capable of charm when he isn't being a complete jerk, which is difficult to portray. Zhang Zhao is a kill joy and arrogant but there are several touching scenes he can have, don't see any such one for Yu Fan. That difficult to portray thing, lack of battles leads to low very low score from me

1/5

[yellow turban]

all three first are 5/5 no words...........................and the last one can have a special  in his voice to zhuge liang example <so liang ....you were better than me at last>if he is defeated about the two LU had any relativity truly needed .both three!!!!!the last two are 3/5 i only like them a little

[Ma Su]

To clarify, your saying 5 for Lu Fan, Lu Su (they are not related) and Zhuge Jin, three for Zhang Zhao and Yu Fan?

[yellow turban]

yeahh................i first saw the first three (the two lu and the zhuge)and then the others so i modified the text

[scholar]

Lu Su, Zhang Zhao, and Zhuge Jin should all be NPCs, they should all be apart of the game. There's is just such a story to be told. All 5/5 for being inside the game, maybe even a bonus character with no story, well besides that included in the game.
But... a 3.5/5 across the board for full fledged story characters.

NOW. Lu fan... sadly... he doesn't seem to play the part I would like for him. He seems like a third wheel in the Zhou Yu, Sun Ce relationship.

Yu Fan... no... unneeded.

Last two 1/5

[GuardianAlexio]

Sorry, I haven't been up to date with the latest characters, having some computer issues. I don't even really have the time to give much detail to these but I'll still give them a quick rating.

Lu Su - 3.5/5. Probably my most wanted adviser. Wu's roster already has made the choice to hold alot of advisers, so might as well add in the one who took over from Zhou Yu. He deals alot with Shu, so a fictional story with him going all the way to Yi Ling might be neat.

Zhang Zhao - 1.5/5. I consider him unnecessary. I see him more for his political savy and advice then actual battlefield adviser. His personality does seem interesting, but I don't know if its enough to carry him.

Zhuge Jin - 2/5. He gets a decent score for the potential of his character interactions with his brother and Sun Quan. Despite his brothers fame in Shu, he was very loyal to Wu.

Lu Fan - 3/5. Sun Ce and Zhou Yu could use an extra man to help out their early stories. He would take the place of the use of Lu Meng or Lu Xun (who usually appear too early in the Wu story) I still support "supporting" characters.

Yu Fan - 1/5. Way unneeded. Would be stretching things WAY too thinly should he be an addition.

[scholar]

Just because I don't want the topic to die yet:

Post Wu Zhang.

Ideas anyone? Lu Kang is a given...

[Factory_Sealed]

@ Ma Su

Ma Su, what are your thoughts regarding Pan Zhang and Zhu Ran as potential new characters?  Zhu Ran was obviously very important historically (judging by the size of his funeral) and both participated in enough battles to make them interesting for the game.

Obviously Wu already has a ton of characters, but Pan Zhang's character discription (wikipedia) seems ideal for a new character.  I guess what I'm saying is that he has enough "flavor" (if that's a good word) to distinguish himself from the rest of the cast.

Personally these would be some of my top choices for new characters.

Your thoughts?

[Ma Su]

Quoting from here in the Pan Zhang/Zhu Ran section listed on first page

Pan Zhang: On the nice guy side, was said to be generous. The personality again is in the intriguing thing, plus his ability to create a market could give a nice cutscene. I do like the possibility of having an evil, violent psychopath but an able one, my worries about him being Gan Ning'ed remain, dropping score slightly due to lack of battles
3/5

Zhu Ran: Smashed Liu Bei's rallying forces after fire attack, a key part during an invasion of Jiangling, held off some good Wei officers for 6 months after dealing with a revolt, fought off a raid despite having low numbers before becoming a political officer. Has key moments, has new battles, has friends but also has a personality. Short, calm headed, organized, alert, didn't live in luxury but he also offers something else: He was an inventor and he built walls quickly in one battle, he could be Wu's man of mechanical stuff. Someone who offers something different
4/5

I'll maintain that, I think Zhu Ran would be a great add for Wu as he offers variety. Pan Zhang would be a solid add but lack of battles combined with how koei has handled their ruthless/psychopaths (Dong, Cao Cao, Gan Ning) before leaves me concerned. Pan Zhang will probably be turned into Robin Hood

I thought Wu woman would be next? For that, Lady Wu, Lady Sun (sister of Jian, mother of Xu Kun, gave advice to build rafts and cross against Liu Yao), Sun Luban (Quan's beloved daughter and evil political figure), perhaps Luban's sister/rival Luyu, one of Quan's wives (Lady Pan perhaps). Maybe one of the later Wu wives like Lady Zhu or Lady Zhang

For 234 generals, Ding Feng, Lu Kang, Zhuge Ke and Tao Huang are the ones that come to mind. Maybe one of the Regents, Sun Chen and whoever the other one was

[Factory_Sealed]

Obviously, the historial account is slim, but how much did these two (Pan Zhang/Zhu Ran) work together (outside of the capture of Guan Yu)?

I think that if you look at them together, its an interesting pairing:

On the one hand, you have Pan Zhang, a garish, showy figure (I always picture somthing from King Louis' court in France) who is a gambler, risk-taker.  Given to generosity (probably when he's "up"...i.e. winning at the tables) and cruelty/harshness when he's down.  Perhaps he is driven by massive debt.  He kills other officers/nobles for money so that he can supply his high living ways.

I picture him as flashy, charming, needing attention, yet sinister.  His heart is dark.

On the other hand, you have Zhu Ran.  Perhaps he is directly under Pan Zhang or perhaps they are equals.  But he is quiet, unassuming, frugal, an engineer...monkish.  He's the direct opposite to Pan Zhang, but perhaps they worked together, or Zhu Ran was the reason for Pan Zhang's success.  He was well loved (his funeral was the third largest in Wu history).

I picture him as calm, brave, practical and intelligent.   

[yellow turban]

Has anyone seen lately any post by Nick?He was/is something like the heart of the team.

[Ma Su]

Obviously, the historial account is slim, but how much did these two (Pan Zhang/Zhu Ran) work together (outside of the capture of Guan Yu)?

Presumably as much as any other Wu general worked together with either of them. Think Zhu Ran would have the superior rank if the two aren't put on equal footing but no reason why koei can't build on the contrast

[Nick]

next is actually the second batch of wu advisers, should we choose to do them.  I will try to add another section tonight.  Been hoping for more votes, but it isn't gonna happen just sitting here, plus I've been busy with new girlfriend and school started again.  Look for a new post tonight.