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[Nick]

Dear KOEI fans,

It has long been known to us that KOEI has used forums like these not only to give their fans a place to talk, but also as a breeding ground for new ideas.  Previous admins have said, "I fight for your ideas," and Evil Ruler's "Share your thoughts with KOEI" section.  Clearly, KOEI is interested in hearing our opinions.

The only problem is, there are thousands of us, and each of us has our own opinions.  Who should the administrators listen to?  The loudest people make an impact, and even if that one loud person's opinion does not reflect the thoughts and opinions of the majority, it is often that person's posts that people remember the most.

To that end, I am here to present to you a way to make your voice the loudest on the forum, and that will take into account all of our voices at once.  Each week, I will be presenting a new topic, starting out broad and getting more and more narrow as times goes on.  These topics will span all the topics in DW, from broad categories like Priorities, Graphics, Characters, etc.  

At the beginning of each week, I will submit to the forum a basic survey.  For 3 days we will discuss it and give new ideas and help to reorganize it.  Then, during the last 4 days, everyone will vote on it.  This will allow those members with great ideas to have those ideas voted on by the members, and at the end of the week, KOEI will have access to all of our opinions in one easy to find spot.

KOEI has made it clear that they want our opinions, and I think its about time we stepped up to it as a forum and told them exactly what we want, what they are doing well, and what they need to change.


The Basics
*Each week a new rough draft of a survey will be posted.
*For 3 days, members give advice on how the survey should be set up, give new ideas to vote on, and argue their side for how people should vote.
*For 4 days we vote on the survey.  The totals will be collected at the end of the week.
*You only need to vote for the parts you care about.  You can fill out any part of any survey and ignore everything else if you want to.
*This will be starting approximately a week after DW7 has come out.
*If you would like to help out, send me a pm... I will be asking for volunteers throughout the project.

What you can do:
1.  We will be asking for ideas on everything.  You have a great new idea for an improved combat system?  Figured out the perfect way for them to make bases work better?  Wanna introduce skill trees for your horses?  Whatever your idea is, share it so that everyone on the forum has the chance to vote on it.  Whichever idea's get the most votes will be recorded for KOEI to see.

2.  Organize, compiling, and counting.  You may not realize it, but a project like this has a lot of work involved in it.  If you would be willing to volunteer your time, please let me know.

3. Vote!  After all, that is the point this whole thing... getting your opinions heard.

**Note: This project is not officially sponsored or supported by KOEI or any affiliates thereof.

[Nick]

This post reserved for Topic Listings.

[scholar]

What if bases had better defenses. There shouldn't be a guard captain who defends the base and as soon as you kill the person defending the gate the people inside say: "OPEN THE GATES, I want to take a crack at him." Normally, people would hold fast to their defenses and deny battle. There would be archers posted on every tower and they would fire down on the people out front. This improved a bit in the new game, but it wasn't perfect, in fact it was nearly as ridiculous. "Attack the gates with your spears! Don't worry, we'll break through eventually." Normally people would laugh at this and throw a rock on the head of the person stabbing their wall.

So, instead, I propose three ways to break down a fort. First among them is to, essentially, harass the people inside of the fortifications. If there are no troops, or few troops surrounding you, you should have a 1/4 chance of luring them out. Once they are out you can retreat and draw them away from the fort so a secondary AI army can move in and attack the force from behind and defeat them in a pincer. After this force is defeated you can return to the base before the walls close and demand their surrender. This should be 50/50 chances of success. If it works, the base is yours and the enemy soldiers join your side. If they do not you move onto the second and third options. If there is an adviser or a generic sub-officer chances should fall to 1/4 again. Should the base defect you get generic officers to your cause. The base, however, should automatically defect should you have 4 times the amount of soldiers outside of it. It should automatically be refused if you request this alone or with only a handful of men surrounding you.

Second among them should be siege weapons. A ram, catapult, or a siege tower should be made available to siege the base. However there should be a waiting time for the machinery to arrive. Maybe 30 seconds to 5 minutes depending upon game difficulty settings and test play. The machines should be defended against defending archers, which should spawn automatically every minute or so to make them more challenging. These archers should be pretty much death to the people escorting the machines. If there are no people near the machines, they should effectively be sacked and destroyed and another 30 seconds - 5 minutes should be needed for a replacement. 1-5 minutes of continuous pounding should break the gate. A siege tower should be able to get rid of archers or be used to launch an invasion through the towers over the gates. A Catapult should do more damage to the gate, but should also do damage to any friendly units near the impact point. Ladders should also be utilized, in order to get over the gate if the machines keep failing. Once inside you attack until their numbers are reduced to 1/10. After that, the base surrenders.

The third option, is perhaps the most fun for Pyros. Simply light it on fire. People should arrive with straw and lay it by the walls of the gate. Archers should pick them off pretty easily so you need to defend them. Once straw lines everywhere someone should appear with a torch and after protecting him to the target light the fires. In 30 seconds to 5 minutes the base will surrender or it's inhabitants will flee to do battle or retreat to another base or army. The use of fire will, however, cripple the usage of the base meaning that you don't capture it, it just dies, making the march to farther enemy bases much more difficult for the AI army. You can charge, but provided Archers make a comeback and defend the other bases well, you'll just be running to your death or a very quick defeat. (Remember those archers in DW2? That's what I want for the forts.)

Bases should replenish AI forces over time and heal AI officers who should flee when they are near death to one of them. A generic officer should be randomly generated to defend the base once captured. This generic officer will serve as any other generic sub officer or adviser, but ultimately it should remain on the defense.


How does is this for an idea?

[Nick]

It's perfect.  When we get to the "bases" topic (probably part of game mechanics), I will be sure to include this/these options. Thanks scholar.

[swift]

I have some stuff. But. It's. well. It's a lot of stuff. I don't want to take up multiple pages with the stuff I'm thinking up and I do want to wait until we get the real thread going so like until then if it's okay with you I'll just plant the live journal link I'm using to post stuff so too save room on forums and make it easier to refer to other things I posted earlier in more condensed forms.

http://odaswifteye.livejournal.com/

[Nick]

I have some stuff. But. It's. well. It's a lot of stuff. I don't want to take up multiple pages with the stuff I'm thinking up and I do want to wait until we get the real thread going so like until then if it's okay with you I'll just plant the live journal link I'm using to post stuff so too save room on forums and make it easier to refer to other things I posted earlier in more condensed forms.

http://odaswifteye.livejournal.com/

Wow.  Yes, that will help immensely.  Be sure to update it as you get new ideas.  I'll be sure to check it before each topic to include your thoughts on the polls.


To everyone, one of the major things that I will be needing help with is compiling information, as well as ideas such as those presented by Scholar and swift.  What I mean exactly is, someone collecting and listing all of the attributes of each weapon, horse, etc.  Someone who can find links to each of the voice actors for characters in each game; someone who can host or find maps of every level online.  Etc.  If anyone can do any of those things, let me know.

[Sazac]

Unfortunately, I doubt I'll be able to do that. If no one volunteers by the time DW7 comes out, I may try to help out a little, but I can't really promise anything.

In the mean time, I have an idea to make the game more difficult, while still retaining the "1 VS 1000", "I'm so awesome, you guys suck!" style of play.

The premise of this idea is make enemies smarter, not agressive. When you begin fighting a mob, they will begin to surround the player. At first, they have very little chance of attacking, but the longer you stay still, the higher the chance gets. Also, the chance of an enemy attacking you directly matches their position in accordance to the player. An enemy behind you has a higher chance of attacking you then an enemy in front, and a closer enemy will more likely attack you then an enemy that's farther away. However, the highest chance of an enemy attacking you is when you finish a combo. Doing so without using a charge attack will certainly get you attacked. Finishing a combo with a charge attack will get you attacked if there's a nearby enemy behind you, likely get you attacked if there's a nearby enemy beside you, etc. However, a single unit will do little damage. So, after flinching from the peons attack, either A) An officer will capitalize and catch you in a combo, or B) If there is no officer, several more peons will attack at once causing a fair amount of damage. (This adds to the "Great Hero" theme as it takes the strength of many, many peons to take you down.) This would keep you slaughtering through most of the game, but would also require constant vigilance, as not effectively killing the units all around you would put you at a serious disadvantage.

[JiangRyu]

To much reading... me brain hurt.. lol JK

In all seriousness i like you idea and if you need somebody to help im willing. But, i am a senior i have final exams papers and preparation for college i will give what time i have to assist and will do so whole heartedly.

P.S. i agree with both topics suggested above, the fort attack system is to simple minded aka"ATTACK THE GATE! our spears will eventually break through!" and smarter enemies would be nicer to, like maybe they run away you chase and pow! They ambush you.  I have my own suggested topic about create a char mode which everybody loves. We should have this system for chronicles mode and we should have a wider aray of design options. 6 empires was okay but im talking like 100 hairstyles 50 faces the whole 9 yards. Think about it

[Nick]

Thank you for the offer JiangRyu.  I'll send you a pm with some specifics of what you can do, if you have time.

Both your, and sazac's ideas will be included.   Thanks for writing them out.

[Homers lament]

 I'm dealing with a crisis right now, so I will not be doing to much posting this week. Note, many ideas I have already posted in other threads. Here is some I posted earlier.

Well, it looks like DW7 will be quite a game. I hope the hype is true. That said, DW7E will have to be a combination of a overhaul, and a return to what made Empires great, the Ruler mode.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. The devil is in the details, as is bringing back the options found in DW5E and then expanding on them.

1.One thing both DW and it Empire cousin needs is a new combat system for duels.

1.Another thing is the ability to use CAW not only for creating player characters, but also to change the color and look of genaric officers and troops. So you can create a unique looking Yuan Shu, and or give your officers matching colors to make them stand out. Troops types also need this level of detail. (at a minimum being able to give them unique colors.)

3.As for Ruler mode, options are the key. Being able to not only station leaders and troops in the lands, but also set up Governors from those leaders for each province. This will tie in well with a new loyalty trait, which goes up or down based on your actions. Some leader would respond to kind actions, while others might respond well to a more tyrantical methods. This could also play with what you do on the battlefield. Say a officer ask for help. Do you go to his aid, or continue your strategy. Not going to his aid might lower his loyalty, coming to it might raise it.

4.Options, Options, Options. I can't say it enough. DW5E had them, and I want even more of them. To make it the best of both worlds, the toggle system in DW5E gives the player the ability to make his or her game as hard and or detailed intense as they want.

5.AI. It is a loose term over-used by many, but want I'm speaking of is how the game reacts to you and other in it's overall strategy. DW5E seemed to not focus on it's troops or weapons, and seldom did things to improve it's lands. I want a AI that will do these things, just as a player would. Maybe each kingdoms leader would influence what measures it would concentrate on based on the actions of others. Some like Dong would concentrate mainly on Military, and money, while others might be more inclinded to its people and progress within the province. But either might change based what the others do along it's borders.

6.I'd also like to see siege play a part in Empires as it does in the DW series. Scholar's ideas about based fits perfectly with this.

[Rivus]

To add onto what Homers lament posted, in DW6E I really liked the sworn brother/marriage thing but it didn't really do anything. The characters didn't really interact at all on the battlefield. I want them to at least recognize each other in some way. I know this is pretty limited since they can't call each other by name, but, as long as it's some sort of recognition I'm happy.

Also, another important thing I liked in DW5E also in SW2E was the pointless and random cut scenes. Sure, they served very little purpose but they were  fun to watch. Also, I WANT TO SEE ALL MY CC's IN THE ENDGAME CUTSCENE. One thing that made it hard for me to fully enjoy DW6E was the fact that only my character got stuck in the end scene, along with a bunch of generic guys. The only way to remedy this was to only use my CC and no others and play with Musou characters, but that makes the point of having CC's very moot.

Oh and one thing I really hated about DW6E was the fact that they removed the gates. For instance, let's say I have Luo Yang. I want the other guys to have to ram down my gates with catapults and rams like they had to in the Musou mode. I mean, they start with 75% of the map anyways. So it's a matter of pushing the AI back, and for you if you're sieging that map, you have to set up the Catapults.

Another thing, let me choose my army colors when creating a edit mode army.
One thing I noticed about DW6E that really bugged me was the fact that there were different army color skins for characters (like, a blue clothing option for Guan Yu if he is in Wei) The only downside was that, if you weren't playing that character these colors wouldn't show. If I take in someone like Zhang Liao, I want his outfit color to match my army color. Same goes for Generic officers.

The thing that bother's me the most is that the skins were put into the game, but there really was no option to use them except in battle.

[Homers lament]

After playing (limited amounts) of DW7. Empires needs to have a REASON for those RPG style camp talks. Side quest that give you some type of advantage (very small), or boost moral would be cool. Say troops is worried about his families in the countryside, a side quest to insure thier safety would boost moral during the next battle for example.

The basic troops still need to be not such a pushovers. Ways to make them stronger should be added with a training option in the cards. While using the weapon options could increase the amount of damage given by them.

Formation cards, along with many other cards, using the DW5E style card system would improve the game. I know it has been mentioned before, but if Koei goes back to the DW6 ruler mode, I will not even consider buying Empires.

Love the Siege warfare of DW7, and would like to see it in the DW&E game in some degree.

[OniCommander]

I have been posting on this in several threads, so I will be repeating some of what I posted.

Officer Mode: I know many want Ruler mode of DW5E to return, which I cannot blame, but one of the things I loved about DW6E was being an officer.  I haven't played DW7 but that campfire meeting that Homers Lament mentioned does sound like a way to implement an officer mode.  As you work for a ruler you can travel through his territory meeting with the Ruler and his officers where you'll receive missions from them.  Example : You work for Liu Bei and you may go to him or to Guan Yu or to Zhang Fei and anyone of them can give you various quests.  Some can even be personal like Guan Yu sends you to rescue Guan Ping, or something similar.

Lineage:
Death: Okay I know some people don't want see these beloved characters to die, or their own for that matter.  But this piece of history is a little over one hundred years long, and these characters do die, some before their time (poor Sun Ce).  Whether they are events notices of when characters suddenly dies like in Sun Ce's case, or a small (like 5%) chance they will die when defeated, or if they are captured the ruler has the option (like DW5E).
Succession: (Arcarver originally gave me this suggestion) DW5E allowed you to pick a new leader if your leader was executed, though it would be nice to pick before something like that happens.
Family: This mainly concerns CAW.  RotTK had a selection system to pick your parentage, maybe a family tree where you can drag and drop characters into the slots.  Also to go along with this and somebody had mentioned more option between the character you control and the officers you swear oaths to and the officer you marry.  Children do seem a likely outcome, and if the game lasts long enough they can come of age and join your character.  A randomly generated character with CAW that the player can later save.

[GuanXing-Shu]

Anyway I can still help?

[Nick]

Anyway I can still help?

definitely.  I will pm you with details.  Just so everyone knows, this will be starting up probably by the end of the month. Want to give our European members some time to play the game and get their opinions set.