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[Orochi_X]

Hence "Incident at Honoji"

[Raheem]

I read that Mitsuhide has ill will towards Nobunaga after the way they dealt with the Hatano clan. Mitsuhide convinced them to surrender providing safe treatment from the Oda clan. Nobunaga overturned the promise Mitsuhide made to the Hatano, and Oda had Hideharu killed. The Hatano clan responded by claiming Mitsuhide treacherous, and the Hatano clan killed his mother in Omi. Also Nobunaga's insults towards to Mitsuhide were even being picked up by westerners.

[Mitsurugi]

oh yeah i forgot to type

"Hence "Incident at Honnoji"

[TauCommander]

Sekigahara was the greatest battle of the period which involved most clans, huge armies, enormous talents and the fate of Japan

[Mitsurugi]

not the greatest but the most important and well, it didn't involve a lot of talent due to everyone betraying their respective side. And most of the clans that participated in that battle where vassals of the major clans fighting the battle so don't think about two coalitions fighting one another but two clans and there servants fighting a battle.

[looknohands]

I'll disagree- the eastern forces were, by and large, the Tokugawa clan and their supporters, but the western forces...they were a loose coalition of numerous clans, some of which were still very powerful (Mori, Shimazu, etc.) and were likely fighting to avoid being reduced to "servant" status.

[Mitsurugi]

yeah but Tokugawa won the battle and what happened to the date and the rest of the other clans they stopped their goals of ruling japan, now if Toyotomi's army would have won the same outcome would have happened.

[looknohands]

The Date and company had no realistic dream of ruling the land and, like their counterparts in the west, were trying to maintain/add to their current status and holdings.  It was never in question, though, that the Tokugawa would be the ones to rule.

On the western side, however, you had a Toyotomi ruler that little actual power.  So what you had were 1. those fighting to support the Toyotomi rule, and 2. those seeking to increase their power/influence within the Toyotomi ranks.  It wouldn't be a stretch to see another civil war further down the line had the west won at Sekigahara...the Ishida were figureheads and had no real authority, whereas if someone like the Shimazu suddenly found themselves placed in the role of Regent...I'm not sure the Toyotomi would have ever been granted their power back.

[Mitsurugi]

true, with toyotomi winning the sekigahara battle they would have suffered more civil wars, but i still think i doesn't deserve the title of greatest battle of the period, for i feel there were other battles that required a bit more skill, planning and leadership.

[wassupimviet]

Okehazama, easy.

No other battle had nearly as much impact on how affairs would play out during the era.

This is ancient, but I feel it must be said.

Still riding Nobunaga's horse, eh? 

That said, I must put down my chips for the Battles of Kawanakajima, the fourth one in particular. It's a colorful bit of drama surrounding the Takeda-Uesugi rivalry and one I particularly adore.

[Mitsurugi]

same here as i stated above the seven battles of Kawanakajima

[looknohands]

Good to see you again, Wassup.

...

Too bad the 7 million battles of Kawanakajima did little (if anything) aside from get a handful of notable generals killed.  Wouldn't exactly refer to them as the "Greatest" battle(s) of the period.

[Raheem]

^This. Both humorous and factual; can't go wrong with that.

[Mitsurugi]

true but the fourth battle really stands out from the 7 million kawanakajima battles

[wassupimviet]

Good to see you again, Wassup.

It's been an age or two! But it must have been a blink of an eye for an old geezer like you, right? 

Too bad the 7 million battles of Kawanakajima did little (if anything) aside from get a handful of notable generals killed.  Wouldn't exactly refer to them as the "Greatest" battle(s) of the period.

Sure, it had no geopolitical influence, but who cares about that? Kosaka Masanobu got a chance to shine!

In terms of significance, though, I'd put it on Honnoji, since it allowed the transfer of power from Nobunaga to Hideyoshi that probably wouldn't have happened if Nobutada (apparently a decently competent commander) took over the clan.