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[scholar]

This hasn't been talked about all that much and I was thinking of having a discussion on the historical significance of Liu Bian, elder half-brother of Liu Xie. His rein was brief and marked by total control of Dong Zhou after the Eunuchs. But it was his deposition that lead many to find the excuse to rebel against Dong Zhou. It could well have been his curt rein that started the chain of events that lead to the three kingdoms era and thus all the preceding kingdoms of China.

What do you think?

[Mitsurugi]

Wouldn't the other lords just use that deposition as an excuse to attack Dong Zhou for if anybody attack the protector wouldn't they be labeled a traitor. So Dong Zhou being his own demise by replacing emperors. What if Dong Zhou kept Emperor Bian would the other warlords have an excuse to attack him then?

[Ma Su]

I don't think his reign is significant, more another mark on how weak the Han's power was. Dong, simply by controlling the capital by force of arms, was doomed to face mass revolts by men of ambition, Bian's death just made an excuse.

[Gray Riders]

It is my personal opinion that, even if Dong Zhuo hadn't deposed Bian, or had even acted as a perfectly loyal and kind minister, some (though not all) of the regional lords would find an excuse to attack him, and simply say that he was abusing his power or some other similar reason. Once a government installs regional lords with the authority to raise their own troops, this sort of civil war becomes a distinct possibility.

[Sima Yan]

I share your opinion Gray Riders. Bian was merely a beacon of hope for what was left of the Han really. A shame Zhuo took advantage of him, would have been interesting to see what he would have become without Dong.

[looknohands]

The reign of Emperor Bian was notable for one thing:
It marked the precise moment when power was officially in the hands of the military and not the Court.  Though He Jin was clearly the muscle behind the Han, he followed the whim of the Emperor; this created/maintained the illusion of the Emperor being in charge of all things.  But when Dong Zhuo removed Bian (and later had him killed)?  The message was sent- authority was derived from military strength, not title.  From that point on it was every warlord for himself in a quest to gain the most power/influence in the land.  Whether that was with the support of the Han emperor or without it was of little concern.