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[i am the bestest friend]

hello my friends

spear man is your best choice they are effactive at defense&attack&siege after you reserch (spear drill) you can have them quite strong and (attack provisions) is a one rare reserch to be earned with a cheap price spear troops are not velunarble to any thing (even if the tutrail say they were velunarble to pike man) they are a nice unit even against the most powerfull cavalry army they also can hold arrows for long and defend against cavalry troops so make sure you aid them with 2 crossbow man and they will become formidble

i my self have been defending against lu bu he attacked me 4 times and yuan sho attacked me 6 times liu bie 3 times and i am cao cao at the pariod of (rival warlords) i have biult a drum platform and i bring out cao cao with spears and crossbows and not a single enemy panetrated throug my defense line

[Hero of Chaos]

They are weak against Pikes. Maybe you've fought against someone with B or C in Pikes.

And a tip,you should use Cao Cao mainly for using strategies against other units,his skill grants 100% success of every strategy against an enemy unit that has lower INT than him,and there are not that many officers who have more INT than him. Cao Cao has many other good officers who can take the attack part.

[i am the bestest friend]

acttualy i was attacked by firece enemies like lu bu guan yu zhang fie liu bie and others like those people lu bu and his elite force was easily deafeted on the battlefield he attacked me the first time with 10000 horseman and after that 10000 crossbow soldiers and then he used pike infantry (10000) the same after and shu was usualy deafeted cuz that youan sho attacked me in the same time so i have tow enemies attacking in the same time they are fighting there eachother out in the open this situation happens alot of times when tow enemies attacks me



sorry for the bad english......

[scholar]

You do know it's only an 80% chance for success, right? And it consumes 20 will... You don't want to leave yourself relying on a tactic that can fail and use up your will. It's why unless I have a great officer like Zhang Fei or Cao Cao they are number 4 on my list. It's only when you do they raise to level 3. Spears cannot match the Pikes in terms of versatility and combat range. They are also better in overall strength and can resist normal attacks. Spears cannot match Bows in range, and cannot hope to last very long if they were of equal numbers. I have had a bow unit with just 1 soldier kill a 9000 S cavalry unit, can you do that with spears? (without spamming Rush)

[i am the bestest friend]

heloo there

i wont belive that 1 single crossbow man kills 9000 cavalry? hmph


spears are equel any thing even pikes and the chance is the unit aptittude and LDR and WAR so pikes are ussles agai8nst them


and since when a tactic dont consume will? huh

how ever pikes have a chance of success and crossbows has a chance and cavalry and all others have a chance of success!!!!



and about spear footsoldiers fighting arrows even 6000 thosend crossbow soldiers can kill like 244 in a regular attack and when an enemy gets up close thier crossbows reduce into a ussless plastic shels.... and they cant kill more then 500 in melee fight and i am not a caward to run back from the enemy 2 squers and attack then run away from an another fight and shoot arrows!!!

2 squres is short and even weaponry can get into them so they are only a soppurt unit not a main unit!!!

[i am the bestest friend]

by the way 80% is a very nice chance of success

[scholar]

It's a strategy game... running headlong into battles is just plain stupid if you don't have the troop and the generals for it. Also, Zhuge Liang, Xun You, and Huang Zhong. Confuse, incinerate, incinerate, confuse, incinerate, incinerate, confuse, incinerate --> fire kills off the 9000, just repeat the process enough and it will work.

To say they can't kill more than 500 is just wrong, if you give a competant general such as Lu Bu bows he kills roughly a thousand if he has a decent troop number, and ranged attacks are not too shabby either.

80 is nice, but it doesn't always work that way. Zhang Fei, Guan Yu, Cao Cao? Sure. But others? especially those that only have an A in spears have almost a 1 in 10 chance of it working on top of the 80% chance of the tactic even following through. The odds become much less favorable...

[i am the bestest friend]

there is no need of odds.....

lu bu can even confuse enemies when attacking with bows and also he can kill more then 1000 and 500 is the casualty rating that 5000 or 6000 crossbow soldiers can kill exept for pantrate tactic and incinerate can kill 450 troops and burn 400 others so its a nice one and 80% is a nice chance but alwys dont work espicely on (rush) tactic which is a very fine tactic and unit aptitude is the most major to gain success even if you had pikes or spears or cavalry with lowest rating they cant equel the swords man troop type units which i like them

[Hero of Chaos]

I just have a small question about your theory,scholar. Don't units with less than 1000 or so troops tend to get confused automatically? This would be a bit dangerous for a 1 man unit. If it gets confused,the enemy can easily attack it and destroy it,even having a chance of capturing one of your officers. Even if you manage to hold the confusion on the enemy for two turns,it wouldn't play out well.

[scholar]

I just have a small question about your theory,scholar. Don't units with less than 1000 or so troops tend to get confused automatically? This would be a bit dangerous for a 1 man unit. If it gets confused,the enemy can easily attack it and destroy it,even having a chance of capturing one of your officers. Even if you manage to hold the confusion on the enemy for two turns,it wouldn't play out well.

Once the enemy unit is confused it's impossible for the unit to be confused. One soldier + 3 officers against 9000 confused troops isn't a fair fight for the 1 soldier. Divine potency keeps them out of the fight and repeated bow tactics with fire keeps on burning them and killing them. It's odd that 1 soldier can kill 43 people in one attack, but the fire does a real number on the enemy unit.

[i am the bestest friend]

yeah its unbelivable for one single soldier to kill them all

also lu bu confused cao cao with 10000 troops killing a thousend cavalry troops and confusing thousends of horse raiders in a regular attack although i dident knew he is exelent with crossbow infantry lol.....

[scholar]

Yeah, it is. I've done it before. It's not that hard. Try it. Zhuge Liang, a guy with focus or gladdened heart, and a divine bow/archer general/etc. officer. First confuse a SINGLE unit, you won't be able to do it if there are lots of units in the area, then incinerate them until they wake up then confuse them again. You might have to confuse three or four times before you can incinerate them.

[DontPursueLuBu]

I used to not lean one way or another, but now I think I'm firmly in the bow camp.

The obvious benefit is the no-retaliation perk.  I'd always rather inflict 500 losses with no casualties instead of inflicting 1000 and taking 500 myself.  Any damage you do without battleback is just pure swing.

If you can score a good shower or two, then charge with cavalry it's pretty much game over.

Aside from that, I also love pikes.  Tight corridor + big pikes unit + crossbow/tower = no force can pass through a chokepoint without your permission.

I also field a fair amount of towers... they're not all that great, but they can be economical when attacking cities.  A few good officers and a workshop can really crank them out.  You only need 1 tower to field a large unit, where you might have to draft bows 4-5 times.

When I march, I take a pike and bow first, unless I have a city that makes supplies.  Third unit is usually cavalry (its easy to have an abundance of horses).  After that, I'll take a tower if I'm attacking.  Then a spear unit last, followed by more bows and towers.

[scholar]

You know what's odd? Pikes are normally number 2 or 3, so far there hasn't been a single person who's named Pike as the best unit.

[El Jefe]

The obvious benefit is the no-retaliation perk.  I'd always rather inflict 500 losses with no casualties instead of inflicting 1000 and taking 500 myself.  Any damage you do without battleback is just pure swing.

The only catch is if the enemy has Counterfire researched. You'll get return fire for miminal damage - something like roughly 25% of a normal attack - if you're not in a forest.

That's the thing I like about bows and pikes. Their upgrades are designed to neutralize their weaknesses against various units, with pikes having the best upgrades and bows becoming the most versatile.

What changed my opinion about bows was when I decided to explore using them specifically with my created force, which I had initially made most proficient overall in bows to keep it a bit toned down. I maxed out the bow techs and suddenly found myself making all sorts of crazy defensive stands and tower/ram-free sieges with ease. You need 5+ cavalry units to effectively siege a castle for HP, whereas 2/3 bow units and maybe a band platform can accomplish the same thing. Low will consumption + band platform + no backfire on failed tactics = battlefield insanity to me.

I want to play a pike-focused game soon to learn just how far they really can be stretched.